cupola
Emerald Member
Posts: 29
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Post by cupola on Aug 7, 2006 11:38:50 GMT -6
Thought it might be a good idea to have a character build thread on the forums for players to discuss and share build info and ideas. It seems that on most hack'n'slash servers that I have been on, folks enjoy discussing their favorite builds and how to improve on them.
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 7, 2006 14:31:49 GMT -6
Sounds like a great idea! I'll be the first, with the build that I've always been fond of.
Human, any non-lawful alignment
STR: 18 DEX: 10 CON: 12 INT: 10 WIS: 10 CHA: 12
01: Fighter(1): Power Attack, Luck of Heros, Weapon Focus: Longsword 02: Fighter(2): Cleave 03: Fighter(3): Knockdown 04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Longsword, (STR=19) 05: Fighter(5) 06: Bard(1): Blind Fight 07: Red Dragon Disciple(1) 08: Red Dragon Disciple(2): STR+1, (STR=22) 09: Red Dragon Disciple(3): Iron Will 10: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=24) 11: Red Dragon Disciple(5) 12: Red Dragon Disciple(6): STR+1, Lightning Reflexes, (STR=25) 13: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=14) 14: Red Dragon Disciple(8) 15: Fighter(6): Improved Initiative, Improved Critical: Longsword 16: Fighter(7): STR+1, (STR=26) 17: Fighter(8): Improved Power Attack 18: Fighter(9): Toughness 19: Fighter(10): Great Cleave 20: Fighter(11): STR+1, (STR=27) 21: Fighter(12): Overwhelming Critical: Longsword, Devastating Critical: Longsword 22: Fighter(13) 23: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword 24: Red Dragon Disciple(9): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=29), (INT=12) 25: Red Dragon Disciple(10): RDD: (Darkvision), (STR=33), (CHA=14) 26: Fighter(15) 27: Fighter(16): Great Strength II, Epic Weapon Specialization: Longsword, (STR=34) 28: Fighter(17): STR+1, (STR=35) 29: Fighter(18): Armor Skin 30: Fighter(19): Great Strength III, (STR=36) 31: Fighter(20): Epic Toughness I 32: Bard(2): STR+1, (STR=37) 33: Bard(3): Great Strength IV, (STR=38) 34: Bard(4) 35: Bard(5) 36: Bard(6): STR+1, Great Strength V, (STR=40) 37: Bard(7) 38: Bard(8) 39: Bard(9): Great Strength VI, (STR=41) 40: Bard(10): STR+1, (STR=42)
I've played this build on several worlds, and it always works out nicely (even on Dev-Crit-disabled PWs, you still do a ton of damage) but it seems to work especially well on this world.
An adjustment I made here was to substitute for Half-Orc - Troll, instead of a measly Human. As a Troll, you get lots of beautiful bonuses to STR and CON, and the losses are minimal. (Luck of Heros? Bah!) My suggestion if you want to follow my lead in Troll-dom? Go ahead and drop INT, WIS, AND CHA all the way down (you're going to lose it all anyway) and boost your STR AND CON evenly. Do everything else the same, and you'll come out with one mean draconic troll. ;D
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Post by Cinerith on Aug 7, 2006 19:26:42 GMT -6
I don't think you can take Improved Knockdown at lv15 without 13 int...
I'd personally stick to Human and take Improved Invis.
I'd make these changes to adapt it to a very high magic PW:
Fighter(14), Bard(16), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Human
STR: 18 (42) DEX: 8 CON: 14 (16) WIS: 8 INT: 10 (12) CHA: 14 (16)
01: Bard(1): Curse Song, Power Attack 02: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Longsword 03: Bard(2): Cleave 04: Fighter(2): STR+1, Improved Power Attack, (STR=19) 05: Fighter(3) 06: Fighter(4): Blind Fight, Weapon Specialization: Longsword 07: Bard(3) 08: Red Dragon Disciple(1): STR+1, (STR=20) 09: Red Dragon Disciple(2): Great Cleave, (STR=22) 10: Red Dragon Disciple(3) 11: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=24) 12: Bard(4): STR+1, Toughness, (STR=25) 13: Red Dragon Disciple(5) 14: Red Dragon Disciple(6) 15: Red Dragon Disciple(7): Improved Critical: Longsword, (CON=16) 16: Red Dragon Disciple(8): STR+1, (STR=26) 17: Bard(5) 18: Bard(6): Lingering Song 19: Bard(7) 20: Bard(8): STR+1, (STR=27) 21: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Great Strength I, (STR=28), (INT=12) 22: Red Dragon Disciple(10): {Darkvision}, (STR=32), (CHA=16) 23: Bard(9) 24: Fighter(5): STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Longsword, (STR=33) 25: Fighter(6): Devastating Critical: Longsword 26: Fighter(7) 27: Bard(10): Great Strength II, (STR=34) 28: Fighter(8): STR+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Longsword, (STR=35) 29: Fighter(9) 30: Fighter(10): Great Strength III, Epic Weapon Specialization: Longsword, (STR=36) 31: Fighter(11) 32: Bard(11): STR+1, (STR=37) 33: Fighter(12): Great Strength IV, Armor Skin, (STR=38) 34: Fighter(13) 35: Fighter(14): Epic Prowess 36: Bard(12): STR+1, Great Strength V, (STR=40) 37: Bard(13) 38: Bard(14) 39: Bard(15): Great Strength VI, (STR=41) 40: Bard(16): STR+1, (STR=42)
Took out the saving throw feats since you can make up for low will with Mindspell-immunity items, and RDD fire immunity + Improved Evasion Items should cover the lower flex save. You won't be making your saves against Catalypods in Botanica even with those feats anyway (don't ask till you see them! =O). Also took out Knockdown and Improved Knockdown since you don't have 13 int and you can forge Bonus Feat: Knockdown on an item.
In exchange you get a Bard Song and Curse Song that lasts 15 rounds and raises your AC/cuts enemy AC by 5 (indirectly raising your AB by 5), level 6 Bard Spells and 21 extra skill points.
I'd try to squeeze an Extend Spell in there somewhere too =S
Edit: Also try switching Longsword to Scimmy for better crit range = more chances of doing dev crits
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 8, 2006 16:11:16 GMT -6
Thanks Cin, you definitely made some really excellent changes there. As far as Imp Knockdown, I don't know *what* I was thinking. My char doesn't have it, and my brain must have completely shut down while typing that. (Edit: Fixed it now, thanks again for pointing it out.) Having never gone past 35 here, I'm definitely taking your word on the saving throw feats being throwaways. I took them here, thinking that perhaps I'd regret it later on if I didn't. So I'm with you 100% on that one. Do you think keeping it Human is worth losing all the bonuses to stats that us filthy trolls receive? I love the bonuses to Str and Con, they seem to really help out. Good thinking with the Rapier, too. I suggested Longsword because there seem to be a ton of really powerful ones in this world, but I guess with the Omega Forge you can always make yourself a very powerful Rapier - and the bigger crit range would be worth it. Thanks for all the great suggestions, Cinerith!
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Post by Cinerith on Aug 8, 2006 17:44:29 GMT -6
Hmm...
Imp Invis and War Cry should help offset lower HP and AB/Damage somewhat. There's also Darkness aka the spell I lurve to abuse =p Darkness and War Cry have no somatic component so you can cast them in armor without failure. They're great with Extend Spell though sometimes I wish I took Still Spell instead on Marlette. Curse Song and drop 2 Confusions on a pack of Cerulin Werewolves, and they'll turn into sitting ducks. But Lena has Confusion and no Curse Song, Marlette has Curse Song but no Still Spell to cast it in armor >>::
And more skillpoints are always good - Tumble, Spellcraft, UMD and Perform is already more than the troll's int can afford I think (minus buggy skillpoints of course). But there's other skills like Taunt, Concentration and Appraise that should be considered. I'll admit the other bard spells are pretty rubbish tho.
I guess it boils down to whether you like to be really good at smacking stuff down or be weaker at that but have more options to play with.
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 9, 2006 14:39:11 GMT -6
*Nods at Cin* Again, all very true. (They seem to have fixed the buggy skill points, at least I hope they have and it's not just something I'm doing. My trolls are back to the appropriate 1 skill point per level, which as you point out makes for some thin distribution.)
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Post by Cinerith on Aug 15, 2006 5:52:51 GMT -6
Edit: I found another subrace to play with =O
My exploit Bard, made with 4 objectives in mind
- To make a *non-elf* dual kukri build with AC that scales into LLs for Grak - To make a dex-based epic Bard for mikeb - To exploit the Forge's ability to forge bonus feats on items =) - Great Dex X by lv40
Bard(32), Assassin(2), Fighter(6), Air-Touched (any non-lawful, Evil)
STR: 6 DEX: 20 (40) CON: 12 WIS: 6 INT: 10 CHA: 16
01: Bard(1): Toughness 02: Fighter(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic 03: Fighter(2): Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Kukri 04: Fighter(3): DEX+1, (DEX=21) 05: Fighter(4): Ambidexterity 06: Bard(2): Extend Spell 07: Bard(3) 08: Bard(4): DEX+1, (DEX=22) 09: Bard(5): Blind Fight 10: Bard(6) 11: Bard(7) 12: Bard(8): DEX+1, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, (DEX=23) 13: Bard(9) 14: Bard(10) 15: Bard(11): Improved Critical: Kukri 16: Bard(12): DEX+1, (DEX=24) 17: Bard(13) 18: Bard(14): Curse Song 19: Bard(15) 20: Bard(16): DEX+1, (DEX=25) 21: Assassin(1): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=26) 22: Assassin(2): {Uncanny Dodge I} 23: Fighter(5) 24: Fighter(6): DEX+1, Great Dexterity II, Epic Weapon Focus: Kukri, (DEX=28) 25: Bard(17) 26: Bard(18) 27: Bard(19): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=29) 28: Bard(20): DEX+1, (DEX=30) 29: Bard(21) 30: Bard(22): Lasting Inspiration 31: Bard(23): Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=31) 32: Bard(24): DEX+1, (DEX=32) 33: Bard(25): Great Dexterity V, (DEX=33) 34: Bard(26): Great Dexterity VI, (DEX=34) 35: Bard(27) 36: Bard(28): DEX+1, Great Dexterity VII, (DEX=36) 37: Bard(29): Great Dexterity VIII, (DEX=37) 38: Bard(30) 39: Bard(31): Great Dexterity IX, (DEX=38) 40: Bard(32): DEX+1, Great Dexterity X, (DEX=40)
The first thing you do when you make this character is go to the forge and make an item with Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse =p. If you don't feel good with relying on an item for such a critical feat switch Weapon Proficiency Exotic for Weapon Finesse and kukri feats for shortsword feats
AB: Base AB is 44 unbuffed and single wield 63 with a +13 weapon and +12 dex from items, or 61 when dual-wielding. For buffs you have Bard Song (+2), War Cry (+2) for 65ab with 2 weapons. Use a scroll of Tenser's to hit the +20AB cap ie 68ab Curse Song reduces enemy AC by 5 so your max AB is effectively 73. On a successful taunt it's 79. Switch the offhand out for a shield and it's 81. Tenser's can be annoying tho =p Spam Dex increases and take Epic Prowess in LLs to raise AB.
AC: 10 base 21 dex AC (with +12 from items) 16 V.O.R Bard's Robe 20 Dodge AC (Bovine/Dragon Boots + Bardsong + Haste hits the +20 cap) 13 Dragon Ammy 20 Belt of Freak Taz/Mirian Band 8 Tumble ==================== 108 without shield +17 Mithril Wall ==================== 125 AC ====================
Every 5 points in Tumble = 1AC even for LLs so your Tumble skill can go up to 60 for a further +4 to AC. You can also take Armor Skin and Great Dex in your LLs for even more AC Also Curse Song cuts enemy AB so it indirectly adds 2 to your AC as well
Others: - You end up with 344HP that can be boosted to 584 with +12 con from items. - You get full Bard spell progression and Extend Spell for godly duration buffs. Extended War Cry lasts 64 rounds =o - Your Bard Song and Curse Song lasts 100 rounds which is effectively forever and can't be dispelled by those pesky caster mobs. - You get 156 skill points. Enough for Tumble, Perform, Concentration which should cover the basics. Decide whether to pour the rest into UMD, Taunt, Appraise, Spellcraft etc yourself =p - An alternative would be to drop starting Dex from 20 to 18 and put the points in Con and/or Int to raise your HP/skill points, but since I was going for Great Dex X I figured I might as well get the highest possible dex for this subrace while I'm at it. - Get +str items and lots of bags if you need to lug stuff around =p
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 15, 2006 9:20:28 GMT -6
I like it! I like it a lot! Also very flattered you mentioned and took into consideration the effectiveness issue I've been having with some other characters. Gonna make this build as soon as I get off work today.
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Post by Cinerith on Aug 21, 2006 8:39:24 GMT -6
Here's the tanktastic EMA + Epic Warding + Hellball dev critter. Score 1 more for BBR =p
Bard(4), Fighter(12), Pale Master(24), Dwarf
STR: 17 (32) DEX: 9 CON: 18 WIS: 8 INT: 14 CHA: 6
01: Fighter(1): Power Attack, Cleave 02: Bard(1) 03: Bard(2): Lingering Song 04: Bard(3): STR+1, (STR=18) 05: Fighter(2): Great Cleave 06: Fighter(3): Toughness 07: Fighter(4): Blind Fight 08: Fighter(5): STR+1, (STR=19) 09: Fighter(6): Expertise, Improved Critical: Scimitar 10: Fighter(7) 11: Fighter(8): Improved Expertise 12: Fighter(9): STR+1, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, (STR=20) 13: Fighter(10): Weapon Specialization: Scimitar 14: Fighter(11) 15: Pale Master(1): Knockdown 16: Pale Master(2): STR+1, (STR=21) 17: Pale Master(3) 18: Pale Master(4): Improved Knockdown 19: Pale Master(5) 20: Pale Master(6): STR+1, (STR=22) 21: Pale Master(7): Great Strength I, (STR=23) 22: Pale Master(8) 23: Pale Master(9) 24: Pale Master(10): STR+1, Great Strength II, (STR=25) 25: Pale Master(11) 26: Pale Master(12) 27: Pale Master(13): Great Strength III, Epic Energy Resistance: Sonic I, (STR=26) 28: Pale Master(14): STR+1, (STR=27) 29: Pale Master(15) 30: Pale Master(16): Great Strength IV, Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor, (STR=28) 31: Pale Master(17) 32: Pale Master(18): STR+1, (STR=29) 33: Pale Master(19): Great Strength V, Epic Spell: Epic Warding, (STR=30) 34: Pale Master(20) 35: Pale Master(21) 36: Pale Master(22): STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Scimitar, Epic Spell: Hellball, (STR=31) 37: Pale Master(23) 38: Pale Master(24) 39: Fighter(12): Devastating Critical: Scimitar, Epic Weapon Focus: Scimitar 40: Bard(4): STR+1, (STR=32)
Main drawback is its AB will be terrible (59 with a +13 scim), but it has 127 AC with Doom Shell + Mithril Wall + Belt of Freat Taz + Dragon Boots + Dragon Ammy + EMA (if you put 40 points in tumble at at your last Bard level of course), 137 with Imp Expertise, and 756HP with +12 con from items.
LL feat diet should be like epic prowess, armor skin and 5x great str.
Well it'll make a good distraction and has as much of a chance to dev crit Dfangris as any other devver out there (since they all have to roll 20 anyway =p). All you have to do is sit there in Imp Tise and Epic Warding in Botanica and people will love you already though.
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 21, 2006 11:05:24 GMT -6
Kinda makes me wish Nyar Nar hadn't taken those wicked RDD levels! A new character? Hmm... Tonight! After work! *nods at himself* Remind me to pester a DM about deleting a few old ones, before they take over half of the server vault.
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 21, 2006 22:23:43 GMT -6
Two things... 1) Seperate forum? Phunic rocks! 2) Dfangris is that hard to hit? You'd need 20s even with max AB? That's pretty intense.
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Post by Cinerith on Aug 21, 2006 23:14:40 GMT -6
Her AC numbers in the triple digits ^_~
(oh noes trade secret =O)
On hindsight longsword would be better for the PM. The +18 dfang longsword would do wonders for its AB.
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 22, 2006 0:01:44 GMT -6
There's a +18 Longsword out there? *Drools*
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Post by Phunic Ivdon on Aug 22, 2006 12:35:55 GMT -6
LOL, I see no one has read the "please read" sticky in this forum...I suggested a new thread for each build, it might keep things easier to find ; )
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grakmarr
Ruby Member
Crush, Kill, Destroy!
Posts: 141
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Post by grakmarr on Aug 22, 2006 13:50:43 GMT -6
*Nods at Toboe* That has been my favorite build so far (with only a slightly different levelling progression), and gave me my first level 40 character -anywhere-. As you say, the only issue is lack of AC - even when single wielding. Expertise works, but it seems to take AB down just enough to make hitting in Linoth/Botanica an issue. We need to lock Cinerith up in a closet somewhere until she can figure out how to get 120 AC into a build with maxed AB. Two great pwns that pwn great together.
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